How To Find a Great Therapist + Get the The Most Out of Therapy

[00:00:00] Liz: Hello, friends, and welcome to the Liz Moody podcast, where every week we’re sharing real science, real stories, and realistic tools that actually level up every part of your life. I’m your host, Liz Moody, and I’m a bestselling author and longtime journalist. Let’s dive in. I am welcoming a very special guest.

[00:00:18] Special guest to the podcast today, my sister, Dr. Katie Moody. Katie is a PhD in psychology. She is an excellent sister and an amazing therapist, and she’s the perfect guest to answer all of your questions about finding a therapist that you love and getting the most out of therapy. I get so many questions from all of you guys about how do I find a good therapist?

[00:00:42] How do I get the most out of therapy? So I thought it was very fitting to invite my sister on to answer all of these. Katie, welcome.

[00:00:49] Katie: Thank you. I’m so excited to be on this podcast because I am probably the number one listener. I’ve listened to every single episode since day one.

[00:00:58] Liz: Aww. Thank you. Yay. Thank you.

[00:01:00] I really love getting the little texts from you that are like, oh, I thought this about this episode, or I really love this, and you’ve also suggested some great guests too. Oh, have I? Yeah. I don’t know. You’re like up in the research world. Oh my gosh. I love that. So it’s fun to hear your thoughts on stuff.

[00:01:14] Okay, so let’s start off with why should I go to therapy?

[00:01:18] Katie: Yeah, so if you go to therapy and you really vibe with your therapist and everything’s working you might be able to kind of break generational trauma, have better relationships, maybe have better sex if that’s the thing you’re working on, reframe your thoughts, negative thinking patterns.

[00:01:35] Really, there’s a huge umbrella of anything under wellness, mental health, spiritual, and body health too, because that’s something I like to incorporate in my practice. Every therapist is going to have a different approach to how they do therapy and what they like to work with, so you’ll just have to suss out what works well for you.

[00:01:52] Liz: And we’re going to get into all of the different approaches and how we can tell which one is the best for us, but just to clarify this for people, I’m going to throw out some scenarios and you can be like, yeah, that would make sense for therapy or like maybe not a good fit for therapy.

[00:02:05] Katie: I kind of love this. Okay.

[00:02:07] Liz: Okay. So I’m going through a breakup.

[00:02:09] Katie: That’s perfect for therapy. Please come in.

[00:02:12] Liz: And is it okay to go for a short term feeling thing like that? Like I’m going through this thing right now and I need help?

[00:02:18] Katie: Yeah, absolutely. It can either be just a short term thing you want to kind of resolve, like a breakup, something that’s going to last a few months.

[00:02:25] It could be a long term thing, like something you’ve been dealing with for your whole entire life. Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:02:30] Liz: I feel just meh every day and I don’t know what to do about it, but I don’t feel like I’m living my life to the fullest. Is that something that a therapist can help with?

[00:02:38] Katie: Oh my gosh, yes. And for that, I would probably recommend existential humanistic approach.

[00:02:44] Liz: What’s that?

[00:02:44] Katie: So, any therapist, I mean, most therapists are integrative nowadays, but if they’ve got existential humanistic on their profile. You can expect to talk about why we feel so meh, why we feel stuck, why we’re not completely that happy or satisfied with our lives, and they’ll help you to really humanize that experience, as well as answer some of the bigger picture questions.

[00:03:07] Like, why am I here? What’s the meaning of this? What’s my purpose? Usually, what I find happens when I’m talking with clients is that they’re not living their life in line with their values. It could mean something like they’re doing the career that their parents really wanted them to do and so they feel meh because it’s not actually what they were meant to do or what they feel purpose in or they don’t get any meaning out of it.

[00:03:34] Liz: What if I feel like my life is going pretty well, do you think most people would still benefit from being in therapy, or do we need something that we feel like is wrong to benefit from therapy?

[00:03:43] Katie: Oh, I don’t think that something has to feel wrong in order for you to want to go to therapy or benefit from therapy.

[00:03:50] I definitely have clients come in all the time where things are mostly going pretty well. They are high achievers, they’re They are doing well in their careers, they have a healthy relationship. There just might be some little things they want to tweak or some nuance to their life, some things they’ve noticed, or maybe they just want to understand themselves better.

[00:04:08] And that’s totally acceptable. Like, if you just want to get to know yourself better, come to therapy.

[00:04:14] Liz: Love that. Okay. Where can I find a therapist?

[00:04:17] Katie: So, a couple things you could do, I like to just start with psychologytoday. com. That is a database with a bunch of psychologists and therapists on there, and social workers too.

[00:04:29] You can just start there, start with your location, and there’s a lot of filters. You can filter by gender preference, religion, sexual orientation, also you can filter by therapeutic orientation, that kind of thing. And so that kind of gives you a good place to start. The other thing you could do is you can call your insurance and ask if they have a list of providers that you can reach out to.

[00:04:53] Some people have really good luck just talking to their friends or family and asking around. A lot of therapists are recommended via word of mouth.

[00:05:02] Yeah, I know a lot of your clients have found you via word of mouth.

[00:05:05] Yeah, I feel super grateful that my clients appreciated working with me and then told their friends about me.

[00:05:12] Liz: So I’m looking at all these profiles. I’m looking at people’s websites. If you as a therapist were evaluating these, what are you looking for to know if somebody is a good therapist?

[00:05:24] Katie: That is so tricky, and honestly, I’m not gonna lie, like, it is kind of like you’re on the dating apps and you’re just scrolling, looking at these dating profiles, sussing out if they feel like a good fit, and then you go on the date and you’re like, oh my gosh, this is completely different than what I expected.

[00:05:41] And that’s why most therapists will offer a 15 minute phone consultation so that you can at least get the vibe of them. Like a little speed date. It’s a speed date. Yeah. And I highly recommend that every single time that I need to refer out clients. The number one thing I recommend is treat it like dating a little bit, find three or four profiles that feel like a good fit.

[00:06:05] And what you need to do is just read their bio, take a look at what kind of things they do. And then if that already starts to feel like a yes, Go ahead and give them a call, try to schedule a phone consultation, chat with them for 15 minutes, see if you like how you felt talking to them.

[00:06:24] Liz: Can you give us some questions that we could ask on that phone consult so that we can really suss out the vibe?

[00:06:29] Katie: Honestly, you should not have to do any of that kind of work. It would be a green flag if you’re a therapist. At the phone consultation is really answering any questions that you have about logistics, but you don’t have to ask too many questions about what their style is or how they approach clients.

[00:06:46] They should be able to just give you that spiel on that phone call. First thing.

[00:06:51] Liz: I actually find that really comforting because the worst part of therapy for me is when I feel like I have to like carry on the conversation of therapy. It stresses me out so much because I feel like I have to do that in normal social interaction and that’s the thing that gives me social anxiety.

[00:07:04] So if I’m paying for a session, I really don’t want to feel the conversational pressure.

[00:07:10] Katie: I am surprised to hear that you’ve had to carry the conversation with your therapist. I would say that’s probably not a good fit. While your therapist isn’t going to always lead every single time and maybe you want to do a little bit of bringing something to the table, you shouldn’t have to feel the pressure to talk or to say something.

[00:07:31] You could even come into session and say, I don’t know what to talk about today, or I don’t know, nothing’s going on, nothing’s on my mind. Or, I don’t know where to start. That is completely acceptable. Let the therapist, especially in the beginning, help guide and lead where that session can go. It might actually turn out to be a really cool session.

[00:07:50] Liz: Yeah, you’ve told me this before. First of all, you told me that I can come to therapy sessions and say, I have no idea what to talk about. But then you’ve also told me, and I found this really comforting, that some of your best sessions with clients are when they come in and don’t necessarily have, a lot direction in mind for that session, and then you guys end up going in these really different directions than expected and getting really incredible healing done.

[00:08:12] Katie: Yeah, that’s so true. It just kind of depends on what my client’s goals are. Another thing that I’m doing as the therapist and taking on at least some of that burden, right, of the work. I have your goals in mind. We talked about it at the beginning. We’re talking about it all the time. I’m gonna ask, well, how’s this going?

[00:08:28] Like, are you keeping up with the thing we talked about? How’s your dating life going? I’m gonna continually be thinking about the goals we had in mind in the very beginning. And also asking you periodically, like, hey, has anything changed? Are there any other goals you wanted to talk about? Especially after we’ve achieved some of your goals, if you want to keep going, like, yeah, like, do you have anything else you wanted to work on?

[00:08:49] Liz: So is that another green flag for that consult call or a first session for a therapist to be asking what are your goals to get out of therapy?

[00:08:57] Katie: Yes, it would be kind of a green flag. I think more so, I’d be interested in just hearing about what is your life like, what’s been going on, why therapy right now.

[00:09:08] We don’t need to get into the nitty gritty of your exact goals in the 15 minute phone consultation because first, there’s just not that much time for that. And I want to make sure that you’re able to hear how I approach things and I want to hear just about you in general. We do not need to get to specific goals quite yet.

[00:09:25] Liz: But within the first few sessions, if my therapist has not asked about my goals, that’s like eh.

[00:09:31] Katie: I think that actually depends on their therapeutic orientation, I’m sorry, the answer all psychologists give is it depends. Yeah. But it really does. Some therapists are very goal oriented and they’re going to ask you about your goals and then they’re going to stick to that.

[00:09:44] Okay. Yeah. Some therapists are way more. flexible. Like, I’m one of the flexible ones. You don’t need to come in with goals, although I appreciate when you do. And if those goals change or bend a little bit throughout, that’s also totally fine.

[00:09:57] Liz: The last thing I want to go over while we’re looking at the Psychology Today profiles, we’re looking at the websites, is there are so many different types of therapy.

[00:10:04] And I think a lot of people are wondering, how do I know what type of therapy is best for me? So can you run us through the more popular, the more common types right now, and kind of tell us how to know if one might be a fit?

[00:10:16] Katie: Yeah, actually, I think something to keep in mind that’s very helpful, especially for folks who do not know where to turn with the type of therapy they are thinking about, is that it really does come down to the fit of the therapist.

[00:10:30] So it’s going to come down to the therapeutic relationship that you and your therapist have. Style aside, right? But if we have very specific things in mind, we can look to certain therapeutic orientations And I can give us like a quick and dirty. A really common therapy style that a lot of therapists incorporate into their practice is CBT or Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.

[00:10:52] This is usually more shorter term, so you’re not looking at years and years of therapy. You have a definitive kind of beginning and ending. This therapy really focuses on our thoughts and then our behaviors and how we can reshape our thoughts or negative thinking patterns that change our behavior and we start to see behaviors that we actually want.

[00:11:14] This type of therapy is great for anxiety, depression.

[00:11:18] Liz: I also have heard it’s really good for insomnia, like CBT I.

[00:11:21] Katie: Yeah, there’s CBT I specifically developed for insomnia. There’s actually a lot of branches of CBT that are more specialized and so another little tip that I have if you are looking for a therapist is what specific issue are you trying to resolve or work through and look it up that way.

[00:11:38] Liz: Like, say, type of therapy for insomnia, type of therapy for anxiety, yeah, okay, cool. So that’s CBT if we have like a behavior that we’re looking to change. Exactly.

[00:11:51] Katie: Yeah. Okay. I also do often recommend CBT for people who are just newer to therapy and they haven’t read all the self help books in the world yet.

[00:11:58] Liz: Or listened to all the episodes of the Liz Moody podcast.

[00:12:02] Katie: Yeah, exactly.

[00:12:03] Liz: Okay, what other types are there?

[00:12:04] Katie: There’s my favorite, which is relational, psychodynamic kind of therapy style. This is if you really want to dig a little bit deeper into your family history, your past, your childhood, your relationships and how they shape you.

[00:12:19] And if you notice, that you are repeating the same patterns over and over again. Maybe you’re meeting the same types of people over and over again. Then you might want to look into some relational slash psychodynamic therapy. That’s where we can kind of get into relational processing. The therapist is going to use themselves working with you to learn a little bit more of how you are as a person with other people.

[00:12:43] And then we can actually translate that. to your relationships with other people outside of therapy.

[00:12:48] Liz: Have you used relational principles to stop choosing toxic men?

[00:12:52] Katie: Absolutely, I have. And you know what? Fun fact about me, I used to have an anxious attachment style. And as I started learning about this kind of therapy and reading all of the books on it, I learned about attachment theory, and I healed my attachment style, And moved myself toward a secure attachment.

[00:13:13] Liz: And you’ve helped clients do that too.

[00:13:15] Katie: Oh my gosh. I’ve helped so many clients and actually I should come with a warning because I’ve had so many of my clients break up with their partners that weren’t working very well for them.

[00:13:27] Liz: Because that was a toxic relationship and in healing themselves they realized

[00:13:33] it?

[00:13:33] Katie: Absolutely. It’s happened so many times, I could not even tell you.

[00:13:37] Liz: Katie!

[00:13:38] Katie: I know. I feel bad, but also I feel so good because the client, they’ll come in and they’ll be like, you know what? We broke up and I feel so much better.

[00:13:47] Liz: Oh my gosh. I love that. I love that so much. Okay, give us another time.

[00:13:51] Katie: So this type we talked about a little bit earlier on, existential humanistic, this is more of a framework, not necessarily a therapeutic orientation.

[00:14:00] This is if you have all these unanswered, big picture questions about what am I doing here? Why does my life feel so meh? Also, if you’re experiencing things like low self confidence, low self worth, This kind of therapy is really going to help humanize your experiences and help you to explore Scary questions like what happens when we die when we die What do I need to do in my life to feel like I’ve lived a good life that’s meaningful to me. I love this kind of therapy.

[00:14:30] I think getting to those questions is It’s honestly kind of fun and very rewarding.

[00:14:35] Liz: Do they just pull out like a picture of the universe and show you that you’re like a tiny speck in it?

[00:14:42] Katie: No, but we should. I think that would be a great poster to put up in my office. Next to like the Hang in There Kitty poster.

[00:14:47] Liz: Exactly. Love it. Okay, next.

[00:14:50] Katie: If you’re noticing that you have maybe poor emotional regulation skills or not doing so well with relationships, you’re needing some interpersonal effectiveness skills and some distress tolerance skills, a really good structured and no bullshit orientation would be DBT or dialectical behavioral therapy.

[00:15:12] This one’s more structured, it’s more concrete, but it can be really helpful with certain personality disorders. And it can also just be helpful for people who do need more help with interpersonal effectiveness and that kind of thing.

[00:15:26] Liz: What’s a sign that we might look for in our lives that DBT would be a good fit for us?

[00:15:30] Katie: If someone sent you a text that you don’t particularly like and it ruins your whole day or throws off your whole day and you find yourself really fixating on that and feeling really bad, DBT might be right for you.

[00:15:42] Liz: Are there any other types? So many people message me whenever I talk about somatic therapy.

[00:15:47] I feel like people are really, really, really interested in somatic therapy right now.

[00:15:50] Katie: Somatic therapy has to do with the body. And I really like to use this kind of therapy for chronic overthinkers or anxious people.

[00:15:58] Liz: That’s me. I’m raising my hand.

[00:16:00] Katie: Yes. People who are really in their minds and very cerebral.

[00:16:03] Liz: Which I feel like the world right now encourages a lot. So I feel like more and more people could benefit these days from somatic therapy just because. The world encourages us to think rather than be in our bodies.

[00:16:15] Katie: I could not agree more. Yeah, and that’s why so many of my clients are right there, overthinking in their minds and their brains, and that’s why coming back to the body can be so helpful for them.

[00:16:29] Liz: So what would a somatic session look like? Are you, like, waving your arms everywhere and, like, jumping and screaming? Or, like, what’s the vibe?

[00:16:35] Katie: You totally can. Sometimes somatic therapy does involve let’s get up and dance and move our body. It really is about cluing into what’s going on. What does our body actually need right now?

[00:16:46] Do I need a hug? Um, Do I need to get up and dance? Do I need to sing, or shout, or yell? That’s our body’s signal, and doing the thing that our body’s asking for is often the thing that’s gonna make us feel so much better.

[00:16:59] Liz: Are there any more really common types of therapy that you think we should highlight?

[00:17:03] Katie: Yeah, definitely. Specifically for trauma or PTSD, if you are dealing with that, I would recommend cognitive processing therapy or prolonged exposure. These two types of therapy, especially together, can be really effective in mitigating PTSD symptoms.

[00:17:18] Liz: So if any of those things resonated, if any of us are like, yeah, that’s me, could we just search those things on psychology today and find a therapist who specializes in that type of therapy?

[00:17:28] Katie: You 100 percent can do that, although I will say most therapists, including me, we are integrative. Most therapists are kind of combining different orientations, like the ones I talked about and others, to kind of craft a, you know, a style that works for them and their clients.

[00:17:44] Liz: That’s it. So you’re in a session jumping back and forth, you’re like, oh, this client needs somatic therapy.

[00:17:50] This client needs this DBT thing. This client needs some psychodynamic work.

[00:17:56] Katie: Yes, but it’s more than that, especially for an integrative therapist. It’s not just this client needs somatic therapy only. This client needs somatic therapy and a little bit of psychoanalysis. They also need some DBT skills and maybe we’ll do a little bit of CBT and homework assignments.

[00:18:15] Liz: I love that. I love the idea of you creating like a custom cocktail, a custom mocktail based on me and my needs. That makes me really happy.

[00:18:21] So we’re in therapy. What are some signs in the first few sessions that a therapist is a really good fit?

[00:18:27] Katie: I would say when you feel like you’ve left the session and you feel really heard, and I specifically say heard because not every session is going to leave you feeling rainbows and butterflies and really good, but if you feel like, yeah, my therapist really understands me, they really listened to me.

[00:18:44] And also, I’d add that they had some good things to say, some insights that you didn’t know about before.

[00:18:51] Liz: And what are some things we could be looking out for in the first few sessions that would be red flags in a therapist?

[00:18:56] Katie: A big red flag would be if the therapist looks to be really distracted, or they’re not listening to you, you don’t feel heard in session.

[00:19:05] Another one is if they have really poor boundaries and they’re showing up consistently late to sessions or they’re letting all the sessions run over every single time. Not a great sign. If you feel like you can’t share with your therapist, you need to get a different therapist because the whole point is being able to share with them and disclose really personal stuff.

[00:19:27] Liz: So if you’re holding back with your therapist, either. Bring it up with them and let’s talk about it. Like literally say, I am holding back.

[00:19:35] Katie: Yeah, say, I’m not sharing everything I need to share. That’s really going to help your therapist move that forward.

[00:19:42] Liz: Okay, I want to linger on that because this is something that you’ve taught me and Papa also talks about. Our dad is also a therapist.

[00:19:49] Katie: Help me. Therapists want to hear. Your feedback on the actual therapy experience in addition to hearing about your life So if you’re like, I don’t feel like I’m getting a lot out of sessions They want to hear that if you’re like, I am NOT being completely honest with you about things I feel embarrassed to talk about things.

[00:20:06] Liz: I feel like I have to carry the entire conversational weight all of these things that I feel like Cringe about mm hmm therapists actually want to hear about that. Can you confirm that?

[00:20:16] Katie: Oh my gosh, Absolutely I can confirm that. I want to hear so badly how you’re feeling in therapy, like please tell me, give me feedback.

[00:20:25] I need to know it’s working. And if it’s not. The thing is, I won’t be offended, and most therapists I hope would agree with this, but we do go to school for so many years, and we get a lot of training and a ton of feedback. Very critical feedback. So we’re not only used to it, but we make it not personal.

[00:20:44] If I’m not the right fit for you. More power to you for letting me know, and let me help you find someone better.

[00:20:50] Liz: And that’s critical too, yeah, because so many people ghost their therapist, and you’ve taught me, like, don’t do that. Tell your therapist that it’s not working, and they’ll be like, first of all, why?

[00:21:00] Maybe we can fix it and maybe you can just make a tweak and preserve the therapeutic relationship, but also they’ll help you find somebody who is a fit.

[00:21:07] Katie: Exactly. And I’ll say, like, honestly, being able to give that kind of feedback to your therapist, even if it’s hard, that’s actually helping you in the real world too.

[00:21:15] It’s helping you get better at giving other people feedback.

[00:21:19] Liz: Okay. And then going back to feeling embarrassed talking about stuff with your therapist, are you ever judging clients? Do you ever feel like what they’re saying is cringe? Yeah.

[00:21:30] Katie: Yeah, I am not judging my clients. I really actually relate to what they’re telling me.

[00:21:36] And I understand how hard it is to share with essentially a stranger about these really personal things. I can connect to that human element. We’ve all been there. We’ve all done things we’re not proud of. No one fully has all their shit together. You might be surprised to know. I’m not surprised though, because I really have heard it all.

[00:21:55] Liz: And then what can we do to be really great clients and to get the most out of therapy? Because therapy is expensive. We want to use it to its maximum potential. So what are your tips for doing that?

[00:22:06] Katie: That’s such a hard question because I feel really conflicted about that. I really want my clients to show up and just kind of enjoy therapy, get a lot out of it naturally without really overthinking it.

[00:22:17] And that’s really hard to do, especially when there is a cost to it. That said, the clients who find the most success with me are the clients who really prioritize therapy. They show up to sessions on time. They make time out of their day to come to therapy. They show up authentically and they’re honest.

[00:22:35] And clients who are willing to try things. That’s really all you need. Base level, basically showing up and being you. But if you want some bonuses, you could take some notes in session if something felt like it really resonated with you. You could jot down stuff that happens to you throughout the week and then bring it to session.

[00:22:55] That’s really helpful. And also something that I find helpful is to read the books I recommend and even talk about your experience reading that book as you come to session each week.

[00:23:06] Liz: Okay, I have comments. One, I get really annoyed when therapists ask me to read books. I’m just like Did you not read the book?

[00:23:14] Can you not give me the highlights of the book and how the book applies to me? Is that fair?

[00:23:19] Katie: I mean, that’s fair. It’s just something that I grapple with often is that we only have 50 minutes We just don’t have that much time. So you’re trying to save me money. I’m saving you money. I promise you read the book I promise I read it.

[00:23:32] I would never recommend a book that you’re not just like i’m too lazy to read this book So i’m gonna make you read this book. Yes, that’s not what’s happening. That’s not exactly.

[00:23:40] Liz: No You’re just trying to fit in a lot in a small amount of time. So having me do some background work helps you do that. Yeah, it can be really helpful.

[00:23:47] And then the notes thing. I think that is such a good tip. It’s the single thing that has helped me get the most out of therapy. Because if I don’t take notes throughout the week, and I just have like the notes app on my phone, and I call it notes for therapy, and I’ll keep notes when something comes to my mind throughout the week.

[00:24:01] And if I do not do that, I show up to therapy and my mind goes completely blank. Like even if I’ve had the worst week in the world, I’m going to be talking about the best week in the world. Or I’ve had a million thoughts about things I want to work on. I will show up in therapy and something about being there with a therapist, I’m like, I literally have no clue what to talk about.

[00:24:18] But if I have my notes, I’ll pull it up and I’ll be like, oh yeah, this thing, this thing, this thing. So if I could recommend nothing else to people, it would be that. Have a notes for therapy note on your phone and just pull it out throughout the week whenever anything comes into your brain.

[00:24:30] Anything else that you think people should know about therapy?

[00:24:33] Katie: So many of us are doing Zoom therapy and telehealth sessions online, and that’s great because it helps us save a lot of time in our busy schedules. I will say one thing that’s really helpful to do is to also schedule five to ten minutes of kind of just transitioning between therapy and then the next thing that you’re doing.

[00:24:52] That’s going to help really integrate everything you’ve just talked about and help it kind of solidify.

[00:24:58] Liz: What should we be doing with that time?

[00:25:00] Katie: Actually, nothing, nothing intense, nothing that really uses your brain. I want you to just be, like, walking to your car or taking the trash out, taking your dog out for a quick walk.

[00:25:11] Nothing crazy, just that.

[00:25:13] Liz: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Katie. We’ll have to have you back for, like, uh, things therapists wish you knew or I don’t know. I feel like there’s so many fun episodes we could do together. But, do you want to tell people where they could find you if they wanted to book a session?

[00:25:26] Katie: Yeah, you can find me on Psychology Today. I’m Katie Moody in San Francisco. I offer hybrid, so I can do office sessions and Zoom, and my email is drkatiemoody at gmail. com.

[00:25:39] Liz: I love that you and Papa are both now Dr. Moody.

[00:25:42] Katie: Yeah, we’re the doctors of the moods.

[00:25:46] Liz: Thank you, Katie.

[00:25:48] That is all for this episode of the Liz Moody Podcast.

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[00:26:28] Okay, I love you and I will see you for the next episode of the Liz Moody Podcast.

[00:26:36] Oh, just one more thing, it’s the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, a psychotherapist, or any other qualified professional.